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15,213 hits 3.0 (1 vote) Share Favorite | Flag 6 years ago by snarf

Will any Atheists make it into heaven?


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6 yrs ago, 9 mos ago - Monday 9/22/14 - 4:30:59 AM EST (GMT-5)
Or will god be so butthurt not believing in him is an automatic disqualifier?
6 yrs ago, 9 mos ago - Monday 9/22/14 - 4:38:37 AM EST (GMT-5)
Hell awaits. However if you killed thousands and then asked for forgiveness then you're safe so, don't be surprised seeing Hitler in heaven.
6 yrs ago, 9 mos ago - Monday 9/22/14 - 8:52:31 AM EST (GMT-5)
On Monday 9/22/14 - 4:30:59 AM snarf wrote:
Or will god be so butthurt not believing in him is an automatic disqualifier?

It depends on which god you don't believe in:

Yahweh will be all fire, brimstone and angry damnation. He's a bit needy you see.

But if it turns out that Dionysus is the man, he'll be cool if you arrive with a bottle of cider. He loves a party.

Of course the other possibility is that not one of the thousands of gods are real.
6 yrs ago, 9 mos ago - Monday 9/22/14 - 9:13:02 AM EST (GMT-5)
I think *many* people who believe in God will not be in heaven.

I often am amazed that atheists would want to go somewhere they don't believe exists. Its pretty much like saying you want to live in a place where people treat each other well, but I personally refuse to treat anyone well.

And the question of getting into anyplace isn't "Do you believe it exists?" or even "Did I do all the stuff that would make people like me?" the question is "Do you know the owner?"
6 yrs ago, 9 mos ago - Monday 9/22/14 - 9:42:27 AM EST (GMT-5)
On Monday 9/22/14 - 4:38:37 AM 69x wrote:
Hell awaits. However if you killed thousands and then asked for forgiveness then you're safe so, don't be surprised seeing Hitler in heaven.

I daresay Hitler will be credited w/ a few more than "thousands" of deaths.
6 yrs ago, 9 mos ago - Monday 9/22/14 - 9:42:47 AM EST (GMT-5)
On Monday 9/22/14 - 8:52:31 AM DaveW wrote:
It depends on which god you don't believe in: Yahweh will be all fire, brimstone and angry damnation.

While it's a popular enough view, the idea of a Hell of eternal torment is not Biblically sound, and the volume of the people who do believe it leads to overestimating their numbers.

Hell is the absence of God. If you don't believe in God, you could say you're already there. While it might not be too great, I hardly think it compares to fire and brimstone depictions. If you don't believe in God, you probably believe your body just rots in the ground. That's what I would guess happens to atheists, too. I don't know why the presence of an alternative having some connection to faith would be something to hold against the God you don't believe in.
6 yrs ago, 9 mos ago - Monday 9/22/14 - 9:50:03 AM EST (GMT-5)
I don't happen to be one of those Christians who is so exclusive, though. It seems odd that it would be held against some people that they never had the chance to hear about God. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that the exclusionary language of Christianity is more for emphasis *within* Christianity, like you might tell a friend a particular restaurant is "THE restaurant to go to."
6 yrs ago, 9 mos ago - Monday 9/22/14 - 10:31:17 AM EST (GMT-5)
"Hell is the absence of God. If you don't believe in God, you could say you're already there."
I like this, I almost said something very much like it before I decided to go a different direction.

"It seems odd that it would be held against some people that they never had the chance to hear about God."
I wrestle with this one a lot. It applies not just to those (relatively few) places in the world where there is no chance of ever hearing about Christ, but also to children who do not yet posses the faculties to understand what God is. I think there is plenty of precedence in the Bible for God holding people accountable only for what they know. I don't think that's license for wearing blinders. So "could know' might be better.

This is one area where I am in direct opposition to what my denomination teaches.
6 yrs ago, 9 mos ago - Monday 9/22/14 - 2:36:56 PM EST (GMT-5)
It's not that I want to get in to heavan, I don't believe it or hell exists. I'f fine with there being nothing afterwards because it makes me appreciate life more.

What I'm interested in is the beliefs of others. Does your god have mercy for fools or no matter how well one leads their life if they don't pick the right team they are doomed to damnation?
6 yrs ago, 9 mos ago - Monday 9/22/14 - 2:38:25 PM EST (GMT-5)
yeah the concept of hell i find most consistent is that of a separation from god that people willingly choose out of pride

there's a good c s lewis allegory about it, the great divorce
6 yrs ago, 9 mos ago - Monday 9/22/14 - 2:40:57 PM EST (GMT-5)
basically anyone is allowed into heaven by accepting it into their heart, but atheists by definition do not accept it into their heart which is why they're not there
6 yrs ago, 9 mos ago - Monday 9/22/14 - 3:00:21 PM EST (GMT-5)
The Great Divorce is one of my favorites. Mostly because it plays into the concept that IRLI forwarded earlier of heaven and hell being positional. You are right now in heaven or hell, even given a choice later, you won't change because being where you are becomes part of who you are. I may not have expressed that as well in a sentence as Lewis did in many more pages.

God certainly has mercy for fools (otherwise we're all doomed). Just not arrogant fools.
6 yrs ago, 9 mos ago - Monday 9/22/14 - 3:04:08 PM EST (GMT-5)
On Monday 9/22/14 - 2:40:57 PM skyfish wrote:
basically anyone is allowed into heaven by accepting it into their heart, but atheists by definition do not accept it into their heart which is why they're not there


This is what I would have posted had I thought of it first...
6 yrs ago, 9 mos ago - Monday 9/22/14 - 7:02:08 PM EST (GMT-5)
On Monday 9/22/14 - 2:38:25 PM skyfish wrote:
yeah the concept of hell i find most consistent is that of a separation from god that people willingly choose out of pride there's a good c s lewis allegory about it, the great divorce


On Monday 9/22/14 - 2:40:57 PM skyfish wrote:
basically anyone is allowed into heaven by accepting it into their heart, but atheists by definition do not accept it into their heart which is why they're not there


Those seem like very different concepts to me. In the first case it sounds like you could have an atheist who either was not prideful or did not willingly choose to be an atheist still wide up in heaven. The second, makes that seem impossible.
6 yrs ago, 9 mos ago - Monday 9/22/14 - 7:34:40 PM EST (GMT-5)
I don't claim to know the future, but if you disown him, and he turns around and disown you right back, I wouldn't be surprised.
6 yrs ago, 9 mos ago - Monday 9/22/14 - 7:39:31 PM EST (GMT-5)
On Monday 9/22/14 - 9:13:02 AM dacash wrote:
I often am amazed that atheists would want to go somewhere they don't believe exists.

Where do you meet them? I've never encountered any!
6 yrs ago, 8 mos ago - Monday 9/22/14 - 8:10:26 PM EST (GMT-5)
On Monday 9/22/14 - 9:13:02 AM dacash wrote:
I often am amazed that atheists would want to go somewhere they don't believe exists.
I'd also like to go to Candy Island in my personal airship, but I don't believe in those any more than Heaven.
6 yrs ago, 8 mos ago - Monday 9/22/14 - 8:32:50 PM EST (GMT-5)
On Monday 9/22/14 - 9:13:02 AM dacash wrote:
I often am amazed that atheists would want to go somewhere they don't believe exists. Its pretty much like saying you want to live in a place where people treat each other well, but I personally refuse to treat anyone well.


It may or may not be what you meant, but I will point out that many people who don't believe in Heaven DO treat other people well.
6 yrs ago, 8 mos ago - Monday 9/22/14 - 8:41:05 PM EST (GMT-5)
On Monday 9/22/14 - 9:13:02 AM dacash wrote:
I often am amazed that atheists would want to go somewhere they don't believe exists. Its pretty much like saying you want to live in a place where people treat each other well, but I personally refuse to treat anyone well.
On Monday 9/22/14 - 8:32:50 PM Wanderer wrote:
It may or may not be what you meant, but I will point out that many people who don't believe in Heaven DO treat other people well.

No they don't! All godless people are amoral. Do you know nothing?
6 yrs ago, 8 mos ago - Monday 9/22/14 - 9:30:57 PM EST (GMT-5)
how can you go somewhere when you don't believe in its existence?
6 yrs ago, 8 mos ago - Monday 9/22/14 - 9:49:46 PM EST (GMT-5)
If it's there, you can go there whether you believe in it or not.

I may not believe in Canada, but I could still go there.
6 yrs ago, 8 mos ago - Monday 9/22/14 - 10:59:28 PM EST (GMT-5)
On Monday 9/22/14 - 7:02:08 PM catchall wrote:
Those seem like very different concepts to me. In the first case it sounds like you could have an atheist who either was not prideful or did not willingly choose to be an atheist still wide up in heaven. The second, makes that seem impossible.

The difference sounds like intentionality.

"Where do you meet them? I've never encountered any! "
I've often thought that you should get out more.

"All godless people are amoral."
Being amoral and how you treat others are practically disconnected. I've known many nice people that had no sense of morals, and I've met very moral people who were insufferable. And vice-versa.
6 yrs ago, 8 mos ago - Monday 9/22/14 - 11:00:29 PM EST (GMT-5)
On Monday 9/22/14 - 9:49:46 PM Wanderer wrote:
If it's there, you can go there whether you believe in it or not. I may not believe in Canada, but I could still go there.

Mayhap. But you'd never know you were there, so from your perspective, it would continue to not exist and you'd continue to never have been there.
6 yrs ago, 8 mos ago - Tuesday 9/23/14 - 12:04:16 AM EST (GMT-5)
So you're saying my version of Heaven might be some form of reincarnation? Because I'm pretty sure I'd notice if I was immortal.
6 yrs ago, 8 mos ago - Tuesday 9/23/14 - 5:11:01 AM EST (GMT-5)
On Tuesday 9/23/14 - 12:04:16 AM Mat wrote:
So you're saying my version of Heaven might be some form of reincarnation?

If the Universe is eternal, eventually the pixels and whatnot that are currently you will find their way into some other life form.

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