Do you think it's really all that surprising that Iraq detainees are being abused and killed, considering people who voluntarily join the military have no problem with violence?
WASHINGTON - The investigation of the treatment of prisoners from the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq has recently uncovered 12 more detainees who have died in U.S. custody. Defense officials told reporters that the Army had investigated the deaths of 32 detainees in Iraq and five others in Afghanistan since August 2002, 12 more than the Defense Department reported two weeks ago. The victims are from 33 separate cases, two of which involved more than one death.
Nine of the cases remain open, and eight of those are classified as homicides, NBC News’ Tom Busby reported. Those deaths, six of which occurred in Iraq, are believed to have followed assaults by U.S. soldiers before, during or after interrogations...
The people being detained at Abu Ghraib had NOTHING to do with 9/11 - they are Iraqi citizens. Some may be militia members against the US, but they aren't Al Queda. And some are just innocent Iraqi citizens that were arrested for being in the wrong place at the wrong time. The people of Iraq didn't 'start' anything, Al Queda did.
As for those who bad mouth the military and what they are doing in Iraq or elseware, YOU are the ignorant ones! Those brave soliders are fighting and dieing for those people that could not stand up to a tyrant that was abusing them. YES I believe that the public was mislead about the war, but the end result is that another nation is free to live the way they want to, not the way an evil person(s) think they should live. I served PROUDLY in the Army and would do it all over again if given the chance. I PROUDLY SUPPORT OUR TROOPS!!!!
This is a question that assumes alot, not to mention, it's insulting. I am in the US military, and I do have a problem with violence. The whole idea behind the military is to AVOID getting into situations where violence is required, but, if those situations arise, to be able to handle them. It is our lives on the line, believe me, violence is the last resort. As to the situation with the detainees, it is sad and confusing, but it by no means defines the entire military. I think it is unfourtunatly the result of people getting too scared and overreacting. (which by the way, can happen to anyone, not just the "type" of people in the military)
The problem was twofold. First, the military dehumanizes the enemy, plain and simple. They are shown as less than human to ease the killing. Second is basic psycology. Was shown in the famous prison experiment. You put people into roles and the role subsumes the persons normal personality.
as a military spouse, I take offense that you unknowledgably assume that all voluntary members of the armed forces (and all the armed forces are voluntary) are okay with violence. Most will only use force as a last resort. Next time use your brain before you open your mouth. The people you are degrading are protecting your freedoms.
No, the people I'm degrading are making my country look like sh*t, and make us look worse than the people we are trying to fight. In case you didn't read the thread, I made it clear I'm only talking about the soldiers doing wrong, and those covering for them.
How is it 'protecting our freedom' if they are abusing people and making a mockery of what our country stands for anyway? What 'freedoms' were we in danger of losing because of Iraq anyway? The freedom to have cheap gas? They aren't there protecting freedom, that's for damn sure. That's not the soldiers' faults, but don't try to paint them in some light they aren't in.
my parents were in the army and it's an offensive and inaccurate generalisation to state that the only people to join the army are ones who have no problem wih violence. Being in the army is not all about killing people. there are the peac keeping efforts in the former yugoslavia where the aim is to stop violence. the abuses of prisoners is not right and i am not condoning it but do not condemn the majority because of the minority.
'Peacekeeping efforts' usually end up killing just as many people as stuff like this crap in Iraq do. When you sign up for the Army, you know that there is a chance you may have to kill someone. In a situation where people are drafted and are forced into it, it's different. But all the soldiers in Iraq are there now because they willingly signed up. Which means they willingly accepted the risk that they may need to kill, and that they may be killed. I know I am not the kind of person who can do that. Only some people could, and I am thankful for those that do it hoping to keep all killing to a minimum to protect our country.
The thing that pisses me off so bad about this situation though, is we shouldn't even be there in the first place. The soldiers can't help that they are forced into this war that many of them don't even believe in. But they CAN help how they treat others and how they act as representatives as the US. And some of them are blowing it for all the good ones.
I am in the military. I never thought I would ever see a war when I enlisted, but I knew it was a possibility. Not everyone who joins the military is a bloodthirsty maniac with a gun. MOST of us are just proud to have served our country. I have not talked to a single person in my command or anywhere near me that agrees with this Iraq crap, but we all have to do what we are ordered whether we agree with it or not. All you can do is support us...you don't have to support the war to support the troops.
I totally respect everything you said, except for this one part:
"but we all have to do what we are ordered"
That's the part that gets me. Nazis were just following orders too, but if a few of them that knew what they were doing was wrong would have spoken out, many lives had been saved. I know the Army indoctrinates you and brainwashes you, that's part of the problem as well, although I guess we wouldn't have very efficient killing machines without the brainwashing. And if we were actually attacked and had reason to go to war, I'd want you all following orders to kick some ass. But some of these troops that were caught abusing people said they were just 'following orders' too, and that's a bullsh*t excuse in my book. Those people were unarmed, hell half of them were dead or dying when they were abused. There is NO reason for it at all. You can never give a good enough reason for it.
No. Every army has people that are predisposed to violence. Some act on that, hence these charges. But there are also people in the army who (I'm GUESSING here!) are probably as disgusted by these charges as civilians. Every war, I'm sure there are people being abused. It probably happened in the American Revolution, French Revolution, War of 1812... It's just possible to bring these charges to life because of instant communication.
I don't necessarily think that they are "have no problem with violence" because that is far too broad of a statement...that makes it sound like no kind of violence ever bothers them. Obviously if you volunteer to join the military you think violence is sometimes the solution to problems, but it doesn't mean you think it is *always* the solution.
I think it isn't all that surprising for another reason, though. If you've ever studied social psychology you could pretty easily predict that this would happen. It has to do with compliance, conformity, obedience, and the situational attribution theory of behavior. Of course, the famous Stanford Prison Experiment is the classic example of this phenomenon.
this question was biased. my brother is in the military and he isn't violent, a lot of people aren't. Look at a lot of the anti-war protesters, those people can get violent. uhh...some people make me mad...
I don't think the fact that it's military really matters that much. Instead, the fact that they're in the military only really gives them a means to being in power over the tortured and probably in itself doesn't serve as a catalyst.