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3,990 hits Rate me! Share Favorite | Flag 15 years ago by Effigy

Should intense psychotherapy be required for all transgenered individuals planning to undergo a sex change surgery?


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15 yrs ago, 3 mos ago - Saturday 4/21/07 - 1:50:58 AM EST (GMT-5)
Wow, you still don't get the anology. Never mind. It's not Opinion when it's inherently wrong. If my opinion was that black people are stupid, that opinion would be wrong.
15 yrs ago, 3 mos ago - Saturday 4/21/07 - 1:59:55 AM EST (GMT-5)
inherently? this subject is fairly new (when compared to things like the earth being flat and black discrimination) and very controvercial, so there is no way that you can say that any opinion about this subject can be inherently wrong.

but like i have said before, just because something is wrong, does not mean that it cannot be an opinion. opinions can be wrong. just because it is wrong does not mean that it is not an opinion.

all of the examples you have givin have an obvious right or wrong answer. this subject does not have that. it is controvercial- meaning that there are many different people with many different opinions on it. SOME MAY BE WRONG, BUT THEY ARE STILL OPINIONS.

15 yrs ago, 3 mos ago - Saturday 4/21/07 - 2:01:56 AM EST (GMT-5)
what analogy are you talking about anyways?
15 yrs ago, 3 mos ago - Saturday 4/21/07 - 2:03:44 AM EST (GMT-5)
See you don't get it. This does have a right/wrong answer. At least in the case of ""thats basically showing that you are ashamed to be gay". This, is wrong. No controvercy. It has been proven wrong.
15 yrs ago, 3 mos ago - Saturday 4/21/07 - 2:06:28 AM EST (GMT-5)
is that what you have been stuck on this entire time???? that is not even what the question is asking.

i have been talking about this subject in general, i didnt think you were still talking about that. my bad i thought we had moved on

15 yrs ago, 3 mos ago - Saturday 4/21/07 - 2:08:08 AM EST (GMT-5)
I quoted it four times. Maybe you shoudl read closer, then.
15 yrs ago, 3 mos ago - Saturday 4/21/07 - 2:11:09 AM EST (GMT-5)
once again "my bad i thought we had moved on"

and i thought you were just using that as an example. i didnt know that was the only thing you were going off about

15 yrs ago, 3 mos ago - Saturday 4/21/07 - 2:12:47 AM EST (GMT-5)
""thats the only way you will ever be truely happy"" Also, a fact that is wrong. Just go back and read my first post.
15 yrs ago, 3 mos ago - Saturday 4/21/07 - 2:16:54 AM EST (GMT-5)
no thanks, i think im done with your stupid "lets pick apart everything you post because i am the only one who can have an opinion" game. i think we have established that you wont allow anyone to have an opinion that differs from yours, and im not in the mood to deal with your bullsh*t, so goodnight.
15 yrs ago, 3 mos ago - Saturday 4/21/07 - 2:19:43 AM EST (GMT-5)
haha, if by "picking things apart" you mean, pointing out how so many points you made are wrong, then yeah, that's all I'm gonna do.
15 yrs ago, 3 mos ago - Saturday 4/21/07 - 2:25:06 AM EST (GMT-5)
no. by "picking things apart" i mean quoting things that i say, then taking them completely the wrong way.

you think that you are the only one that can be right in this subject, and that is stupid. the fact that you think that people cant have an opinion just because their opinion is wrong is stupid.

15 yrs ago, 3 mos ago - Saturday 4/21/07 - 2:26:22 AM EST (GMT-5)
Don't confuse *my* opinion, with research supported facts. Please.
15 yrs ago, 3 mos ago - Saturday 4/21/07 - 2:35:46 AM EST (GMT-5)
They absolutely need to be screened to come to a conclusion about whether the surgery would be necessary.

Therapy should be highly recommended, as well. A lot of people who have sex changes experience depression afterwards because they're having trouble coping, they are ostracized, or the surgery didn't make them feel quite the way they want to.

15 yrs ago, 3 mos ago - Saturday 4/21/07 - 12:07:31 PM EST (GMT-5)
On 4/21/2007 2:26:22 AM mynameismike wrote:
Don't confuse *my* opinion, with research supported facts. Please.

i said nothing about your opinion... and anyone can copy and paste bits and pieces of something someone said and write "no thats wrong. theres been research and its proven that you are wrong" to everything someone says.
15 yrs ago, 3 mos ago - Saturday 4/21/07 - 12:09:12 PM EST (GMT-5)
They have to undergo a lot of counseling and get an ok from at least one psychiatrist/psychologist, I believe.
15 yrs ago, 3 mos ago - Saturday 4/21/07 - 1:56:41 PM EST (GMT-5)
"and anyone can copy and paste bits and pieces of something someone said and write "no thats wrong. theres been research and its proven that you are wrong" to everything someone says." That is probably the dumbest, most immature, head-in-the-sand, thing I have ever heard. I can't even fathom th lack of logic here. I'm done with you.
15 yrs ago, 3 mos ago - Saturday 4/21/07 - 3:54:10 PM EST (GMT-5)
yeah coming from the guy who says that people cant have an opinion if he thinks that it is wrong, that means nothing.

just saying oh yeah its been proven wrong, scientific research proves it!! means nothing. that is not showing proof that it is wrong. it only shows that you think it is wrong. you have shown no actual evidence other than this "research" you talk about but dont actually show.

"That is probably the dumbest, most immature, head-in-the-sand, thing I have ever heard. I can't even fathom th lack of logic here."
why? thats what you were doing. copy and pasting what i said, then saying "no thats wrong, research says so" without saying what research, when, what it actually said, who said it, any sort of citation at all. why would you expect anyone to believe what you said?

15 yrs ago, 3 mos ago - Saturday 4/21/07 - 4:06:26 PM EST (GMT-5)
Zhou, J.N., Hofman M.A., Gooren L.J.G., & Swaab, D.F. (1995). A sex difference in the human brain and its relation to transsexuality. Nature, 378, 68 - ­70.

Proof no, but evidence. There is an area of the brain which has a greater volume in men than in women. This area of the brain was found to be the same volume as with females in Male to female transexuals, independent of their sexual orientation.

15 yrs ago, 3 mos ago - Saturday 4/21/07 - 4:19:18 PM EST (GMT-5)
^i wasnt saying that i doubted what he said was true, because i did some research on my own.

i was just saying that no one is going to believe you just because you say so, without showing any proof.

and thinking that is in no way dumb, immature, head-in-the-sand, that lacks any logic- you cant take peoples word for things nowadays, and you shouldnt either. especially not someone off of this website.

15 yrs ago, 3 mos ago - Saturday 4/21/07 - 4:21:09 PM EST (GMT-5)
People lie on the internet?!
15 yrs ago, 3 mos ago - Saturday 4/21/07 - 4:23:25 PM EST (GMT-5)
i would think that it is dumb immature head in the sand and lacking logic TO believe anyone, without any actual proof.
15 yrs ago, 3 mos ago - Saturday 4/21/07 - 4:24:41 PM EST (GMT-5)
On 4/21/2007 4:21:10 PM Floor Demon wrote:
People lie on the internet?!

exactly my point. so why should i take his word for it? and why does that make me dumb, immature, head-in-the-sand...?
15 yrs ago, 3 mos ago - Saturday 4/21/07 - 4:32:43 PM EST (GMT-5)
To be honest, a lot of the time I'm quite willing to offer backing for the things I say, but I know people won't look at them or care, so its easier just to make my point unless someone explicitly asks for a reference.

His point about opinions is pretty much right though. Some things are a case of subjective opinion, some are a case of factual knowledge (or maybe in this case "informed opinion" would be a better term).

Too many people (not including you) seem to think saying "its just an opinion, it can't be wrong" absolves them of talking any old crap.

15 yrs ago, 3 mos ago - Saturday 4/21/07 - 4:54:22 PM EST (GMT-5)
he was saying that you cant have an opinion if it is wrong. there are BILLIONS of people who have opinions that are wrong, but that doesnt mean that thier opinion is not an opinion. i dont believe that there are guidlines for what can or cannot be an opinion.

and when a person picks apart every little thing in my post, like he did, i would expect him to have more than "research says so" to back himself up.

it wouldnt be such a big deal for me except that he showed no proof other than his word against mine. and then he called me dumb, immature, etc, for not believing him. this is the internet, im not going to believe someone just because they say so.

and this is youthink, everyone talks any old crap. but i stated that i didnt know alot about it in my first post, so its not like i was denying that so i dont understand why he went off on me, when there are plenty of other people who KNOW that they are right, even though they are obviously wrong.

15 yrs ago, 3 mos ago - Saturday 4/21/07 - 5:16:40 PM EST (GMT-5)
Nah, I think he was saying that people can have an opinion on something but be factually incorrect. It can be an opinion, but a misinformed one, thus saying "its just my opinion" is just stating a lack of knowledge.

Referring back to the flat Earth thing, someone 1000 years ago could form an opinion based on something that is factually incorrect.

Equally I could say something like "in my opinion there is more crime in the US than in France". It isn't a matter of opinion, its a matter of knowing the facts. You could consider someone's statement that does not know all the facts to be an opinion, but it would be misinformed and incorrect, and thus largely rather valueless.

To equate homosexuality with transsexuality as you did, even with stating you are not well informed on the topic, is quite a bold statement to make.


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