If nature was so balanced before humans came along, how did evolution ever occur, what happened to the dinosaurs and those before them? Why is it that animals were constantly dying off and being replaced.
I mean seriously, explain saber toothed cats, kept becoming better hunters, hunting bigger prey, changing into better hunters that were larger with bigger teeth and the ability to hunt bigger predators, until one day, they got so good they killed off all their bigger prey and were now so specialized they couldn't hunt the lesser prey and died off killing two birds with one stone, them and their prey.
If nature was truly balanced, there would be no change at all.
It's because nature is unbalanced and competitive that there's any change at all in the first place.
I say it is not and never has been balanced. As we've seen with the saber toothed cat there can be such a thing as being too successful, but that's not the same thing.
Nature is an environment that creatures compete in for survival, that's it. It's not benevolent, it's not caring, it's not seeking to protect each of it's "children" it simply is, and life seeks to do the best it can.
Nature can seem to be balanced at times, but it never really is, ecosystems change over time as the predators become better, or the prey becomes better, or the environment shifts in climate, ect.
Nature is well balanced in its purist forms, the problem, as others have stated is humans. We don't just take what we need, we take what we want. And because of that soon there wont be enough left to go around.
On 2/19/2007 9:51:28 PM surrysounds wrote: Nature is well balanced in its purist forms, the problem, as others have stated is humans. We don't just take what we need, we take what we want. And because of that soon there wont be enough left to go around.
Where may I ask do you get this idea? I suppose nature was stagnant before we came along a screwed things up huh? I suppose everything was hunky dory and no animals went extinct, I suppose all the animals lived in peace and harmony. No animals ever over hunted, no animals ever competed over territory to the point where another animal went extinct. Nope, everything was fine until we came along...
Wait where did we come from again? Oh yeah from natural pressures due to changing climates and our primate ancestors adapting to these changes in nature, which must have been very odd, because as we know, nature is balanced.
As for turning the boat over, it is a possibility, except that, if the purpose of life forms is to try and be successful and survive, then we may very well be the best thing to come along. Name one other species with the potential capacity to save the planet and all it's life forms from something like, say a meteor like the ones that killed the dinosaurs?
Life seems to still go one, there are still lots of animals, and the planet has more capabilities for self defense now than it ever has thanks to us, so I'm really not sure I buy this whole turning the boat over idea.
Don't mistake nature with the environment wolfboy. No doubt floods, droughts etc has driven other animals into extinction... But has any other animal (other than humans) ever wipped another species off the planet?
Yes, several times. Why do you think there were completely different dinosaurs by the end of their existance than at the beginning? What do you think happened to the sabertoothed tigers when they became too successful? Why have millions of species come and gone long before humans came about? You think that the only factor in extinction is the environment and humans? Get real.
See the problem is, nature isn't JUST the environment, it's that, and the animals that inhabit it (which coincidentally includes us. We are a part of nature too, so IF we are out of whack, then by default so is nature.
Ok fair enough nature is ultimately humans and the environment aswell, but examples. Give me examples. No one actually knows what happened to the dinosaurs. There extinction is something still argued over today.. Give me examples of an animal that has completely eliminated another species. I have no doubt that humans aren't the only contributing factor to the state of the earth, but its clear that a much more even sense of 'balance' would exist between nature had humans not come into the frey.
I'm not talking about extinction of the dinosaurs I'm talking about the fact that the dinosaurs at the beginning of their existence were completely extinct and replaced by entirely different more capable dinosaurs by the time the dinos went extinct. Their were smarter faster more capable predators that hunted in packs and herbivores with the most advanced natural armor and weaponry the world has ever seen on a living creature, nothing of the likes which existed in the beginning.
By looking at the dinosaurs from beginning to end, we can see the natural competition which is nature and how it takes place. Both herbivores and predators became better and more competent and those that lagged behind died off. It's evolution in process and it's not balanced, evolution can't exist in a balance.
If things were ever truly balanced nothing would change.
As for more balance, all of nature could be wiped out in instant by a meteor before we came along, you think the damage we caused is a
We are simply the most successful life form on this planet to date, those that are most successful spread and those that are less successful lose ground, it's happened in nature for millennia. It just so happens that a creature as successful as us has until today never existed.
We have the ability to create an artificial balance, which we are sort of doing, and will do out of necessity in the future just to maintain our status quo so we don't go the way many over successful herbivores or predators have gone out before us by being unhuntable or too good of predators and eaten themselves out of food into starvation.
Have you ever tried walking on a balance beam? You'll be a lot steadier if you look a little further down the beam than if you look at your feet. Similarly, looking at a tiny period of history, nature may appear to be out of balance because they're killing wolves in Yellowstone, then reintroducing them, and forest fires, etc. But in the grand scheme of things, while there is ebb and flow, it all balances out again.
It always finds a balance, and has one right now. As IRL says, it evens out, ebb and flow. Or to be more precise, it's unbalanced, there's conflicting elements, but they all even out, everything supports everything else, and if something doesn't, it disappears. Hmmm. Possibly a continual and level state of flux.