``Yeshiva University in New York City will have to continue to recognize an LGBTQ student organization while the school argues its case against the group in state court, the U.S.... Who's Online | Find Members | Private Messages
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The Supreme Court rules Yeshiva University must recognize student LGBTQ group for now

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10 days ago - Thursday 9/15/22 - 2:40:05 PM EST (GMT-5)
"Yeshiva University in New York City will have to continue to recognize an LGBTQ student organization while the school argues its case against the group in state court, the U.S. Supreme Court has ruled.

The opinion Wednesday left in place a New York state court ruling requiring the university to recognize the YU Pride Alliance.

It also forces the university to exhaust at least two other legal avenues in New York before returning to the Supreme Court to make its case."


https://www.npr.org/2022/09/15/1123...

10 days ago - Thursday 9/15/22 - 3:00:43 PM EST (GMT-5)
Personally, I am conflicted on this issue.

I initially thought that the university should be required to recognize the LGBTQ student organization, as recognition is not necessarily the same as an endorsement of the group or the group's opinions/beliefs. College campuses are traditionally places where people are free to voice their beliefs and opinions, encouraging a variety of student organizations is a great way to do that.

On the other hand, the University is a private entity and should be free to make up whatever rules they want. If people don't like the rules, they are free to choose a different college.
10 days ago - Thursday 9/15/22 - 3:19:19 PM EST (GMT-5)
The big issue is that they're a Title XI school. Get federal money, play by Federal Rules. And that also means they need to abide by Title VII, too. So it's like... If you're willing to take gay money from gay students and the gay government, and employ gay people and give them gay money to pay their gay rent and eat their gay food, then you need to provide them the same gay amenities as the other slightly to significantly less gay students receive. Otherwise you're effectively spending less on gay students than you are the slightly to significantly less gay students and that wouldn't be a problem if the institution was not taking gay money from the gay government.
10 days ago - Thursday 9/15/22 - 4:52:47 PM EST (GMT-5)
What gay money are they actually getting from the gay government?

I don't think that gay government backed loans or gay pell grants would count.
10 days ago - Thursday 9/15/22 - 5:03:14 PM EST (GMT-5)
It if were a public college, there would be no question of having to support LGBTQ student organizations.

As far as private institutions go, as long as they don't discriminate when choosing to accept students or not, I don't think they should be forced to provide accommodations that conflict with their free practice of their religious beliefs. THat said, I'm not sure that allowing the student organizatoin in question really would be a true conflict.

10 days ago - Thursday 9/15/22 - 6:33:03 PM EST (GMT-5)
I have nothing useful to add to this besides mentioning that while I'm not gay I wouldn't mind some of that gay money being sent my way.

Thanks gay Obama.
10 days ago - Thursday 9/15/22 - 7:13:51 PM EST (GMT-5)
On Thursday 9/15/22 - 3:00:43 PM CowDung wrote:
Personally, I am conflicted on this issue. I initially thought that the university should be required to recognize the LGBTQ student organization, as recognition is not necessarily the same as an endorsement of the group or the group's opinions/beliefs. College campuses are traditionally places where people are free to voice their beliefs and opinions, encouraging a variety of student organizations is a great way to do that. On the other hand, the University is a private entity and should be free to make up whatever rules they want. If people don't like the rules, they are free to choose a different college.

Yeah, I agree. Like if my religious beliefs say black ppl shouldn’t go to my private university, that would be cool too! Always the ppl who are never restricted who are cool with others being restricted
10 days ago - Thursday 9/15/22 - 7:14:11 PM EST (GMT-5)
…based on religion. CINO much?
10 days ago - Thursday 9/15/22 - 7:14:41 PM EST (GMT-5)
On Thursday 9/15/22 - 6:33:03 PM Alpha_A wrote:
I have nothing useful to add to this besides mentioning that while I'm not gay I wouldn't mind some of that gay money being sent my way. Thanks gay Obama.

Don’t worry. CD also has nothing useful to add.
10 days ago - Thursday 9/15/22 - 9:18:48 PM EST (GMT-5)
On Thursday 9/15/22 - 4:52:47 PM CowDung wrote:
What gay money are they actually getting from the gay government? I don't think that gay government backed loans or gay pell grants would count.


They definitely do! For both! That's money they can't get without government recognition and the government has criteria, Title IX compliance only being part of it (a lot of it has to do with accrediting bodies), because without meeting those criteria, the government can't legally distinguish between, Princeton Divinity school and UPS's driver training. And that's why schools like Liberty are doing even the bare minimum to get accreditations and fake being Title IX compliant, it's because the pool of money they can get is vast by comparison, otherwise they'd just admit they're a degree mill with a fancy public front.
10 days ago - Thursday 9/15/22 - 9:25:49 PM EST (GMT-5)
On Thursday 9/15/22 - 7:14:11 PM camelboy wrote:
…based on religion. CINO much?


Which side of the issue do you think I'm on?

BYU has a religion based no drinking on campus rule. It's not unheard of for schools to enforce their beliefs through the 'honor code' they expect their students to follow.

10 days ago - Thursday 9/15/22 - 9:27:31 PM EST (GMT-5)
On Thursday 9/15/22 - 7:13:51 PM camelboy wrote:
Yeah, I agree. Like if my religious beliefs say black ppl shouldn’t go to my private university, that would be cool too! Always the ppl who are never restricted who are cool with others being restricted


Not the same thing, but nice try.
10 days ago - Thursday 9/15/22 - 9:46:38 PM EST (GMT-5)
So you equate being a drinker to being LGBTQ. Nice try? I don’t have to try so hard with hypocrites.
9 days ago - Friday 9/16/22 - 1:37:29 PM EST (GMT-5)
On Thursday 9/15/22 - 9:46:38 PM camelboy wrote:
So you equate being a drinker to being LGBTQ. Nice try? I don’t have to try so hard with hypocrites.


Not equating being a drinker to being LGBTQ- - just giving an example of Universities that have imposed rules based on their religious beliefs.


9 days ago - Friday 9/16/22 - 1:41:29 PM EST (GMT-5)
I don't believe that Yeshiva is denying admission to LGBTQ students or trying to impose rules saying that students cannot be LGBTQ.
9 days ago - Friday 9/16/22 - 2:42:59 PM EST (GMT-5)
On Friday 9/16/22 - 1:41:29 PM CowDung wrote:
I don't believe that Yeshiva is denying admission to LGBTQ students or trying to impose rules saying that students cannot be LGBTQ.


It doesn't matter. Club recognition means that they have access to certain university services, which have a monitary value. And if those services are denied to this club, they're losing out due to discrimination.
9 days ago - Friday 9/16/22 - 10:13:49 PM EST (GMT-5)
On Thursday 9/15/22 - 7:14:11 PM camelboy wrote:
…based on religion. CINO much?
On Thursday 9/15/22 - 9:25:49 PM CowDung wrote:
Which side of the issue do you think I'm on? BYU has a religion based no drinking on campus rule. It's not unheard of for schools to enforce their beliefs through the 'honor code' they expect their students to follow.

You just equated rules regarding drinking alcohol with rules regulating LGBTQ club recognition. You just did. Right here.
9 days ago - Friday 9/16/22 - 11:13:00 PM EST (GMT-5)
Which is different than 'being LGBT'.
9 days ago - Friday 9/16/22 - 11:16:52 PM EST (GMT-5)
On Friday 9/16/22 - 1:41:29 PM CowDung wrote:
I don't believe that Yeshiva is denying admission to LGBTQ students or trying to impose rules saying that students cannot be LGBTQ.
On Friday 9/16/22 - 2:42:59 PM Kepi wrote:
It doesn't matter. Club recognition means that they have access to certain university services, which have a monitary value. And if those services are denied to this club, they're losing out due to discrimination.


Then it comes down to being forced to fund an activity that goes against the beliefs that founded the university.

9 days ago - Friday 9/16/22 - 11:25:25 PM EST (GMT-5)
CD, you kinda suck at this
9 days ago - Friday 9/16/22 - 11:27:18 PM EST (GMT-5)
On Friday 9/16/22 - 1:41:29 PM CowDung wrote:
I don't believe that Yeshiva is denying admission to LGBTQ students or trying to impose rules saying that students cannot be LGBTQ.
On Friday 9/16/22 - 2:42:59 PM Kepi wrote:
It doesn't matter. Club recognition means that they have access to certain university services, which have a monitary value. And if those services are denied to this club, they're losing out due to discrimination.
On Friday 9/16/22 - 11:16:52 PM CowDung wrote:
Then it comes down to being forced to fund an activity that goes against the beliefs that founded the university.

Yep, so it’s cool if that means black folks at some random Florida university too according to you.
9 days ago - Friday 9/16/22 - 11:28:34 PM EST (GMT-5)
On Friday 9/16/22 - 1:41:29 PM CowDung wrote:
I don't believe that Yeshiva is denying admission to LGBTQ students or trying to impose rules saying that students cannot be LGBTQ.
On Friday 9/16/22 - 2:42:59 PM Kepi wrote:
It doesn't matter. Club recognition means that they have access to certain university services, which have a monitary value. And if those services are denied to this club, they're losing out due to discrimination.
On Friday 9/16/22 - 11:16:52 PM CowDung wrote:
Then it comes down to being forced to fund an activity that goes against the beliefs that founded the university.


They don't have to be a university. Or they can reject title IX, reject accreditation, and then they have no obligation to comply with those standards. Anybody can issue a degree on any standard. And that does happen and some
9 days ago - Friday 9/16/22 - 11:32:49 PM EST (GMT-5)
of those degrees are respected and some aren't and that is what it is. Like, they have other options, but if you've got government money funding your faith based school, then that government money is going to expect to dictate terms. If you don't want to do that, then you need to take one of the other options because why should my tax dollars pay for programs and grants for schools that won't abide by the same laws I'm bound to follow? Fxck that.
9 days ago - Saturday 9/17/22 - 12:26:32 AM EST (GMT-5)
Also, and sorry I'm back, but I just had this thought... By doing things the other way, you're inviting the government to judge the religious beliefs of the students and the institution in future suits. If you're not taking a hard line stance that institutions that meet the legal requirements to take student loan money and public grants must maintain those obligations what you're doing is effectively deciding that students must enroll in seminaries that adhere only to that institution's current belief structure. Every religion is internally diverse, as is every religious school and institution. By forcing schools to abide by the laws of the land they reside in, you're guaranteeing that that natural internally diversity is maintained. This way, kids that go to Liberty seminary can have internally diverse beliefs and can have beliefs that contradict the institution's but still get
9 days ago - Saturday 9/17/22 - 12:34:32 AM EST (GMT-5)
their degree and still use it in the way they see fit, and the same with someone from Yale divinity and Duke and so on. The students rights to exercise their religious freedom supercedes the desires of the institution because the government allowing these institutions to flaunt the law of the land ensures their demise through stagnation, which is the ultimate violation of the 1st amendment: it's maximum government interference. And again, all these schools can legally avoid all the regulations that the government places on higher education by declaring themselves a nonprofit organization and not taking government backed student loan money and government funded grants. So these institutions have an option which circumvents all government oversight. So I'm just hard pressed to see this ruling as unfair as it provides the maximum array of options possible for the people, which is who

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