``Yeshiva University in New York City will have to continue to recognize an LGBTQ student organization while the school argues its case against the group in state court, the U.S.... Who's Online | Find Members | Private Messages
Questions
Quizzes
Articles
My Journal
Forums
Quests. | Journs. | Gen. | News | Quiz | Links | TV | Music | Movies | Games | Sports | Sug. | Lit. | Jokes | Artcls. | Newb | O.S.
The Supreme Court rules Yeshiva University must recognize student LGBTQ group for now

Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Next (showing 26-50 of 156)

Back to Thread List
Bottom Last Post

19 days ago - Saturday 9/17/22 - 12:34:47 AM EST (GMT-5)
The constitution is actually written for.
18 days ago - Sunday 9/18/22 - 4:07:35 PM EST (GMT-5)
Looks like Yeshiva has suspended all club activities now.
18 days ago - Sunday 9/18/22 - 4:15:27 PM EST (GMT-5)
I still don't accept that government backed loans and pell grants amount to public funding of the university- - that funding is to the students to help them pay for college, and could be used at any college. Loans are government backed, not government funding. Pell grants are government funding, but are awarded based on low income students, not really government funding of the college. It's not at all the same as the funding that public universities receive from the government.
18 days ago - Sunday 9/18/22 - 8:58:19 PM EST (GMT-5)
On Sunday 9/18/22 - 4:15:27 PM CowDung wrote:
I still don't accept that government backed loans and pell grants amount to public funding of the university- - that funding is to the students to help them pay for college, and could be used at any college. Loans are government backed, not government funding. Pell grants are government funding, but are awarded based on low income students, not really government funding of the college. It's not at all the same as the funding that public universities receive from the government.


Sure it is, it all is, because the only reason those things exist is because the government has determined that it's within it's interest to have degreed people in it's general labor pool. And that general part is the most important point. They don't need degrees that will only service a particular portion of the society, and are only interested
18 days ago - Sunday 9/18/22 - 9:20:45 PM EST (GMT-5)
Interacting with a subset of the society. If that were to happen, it wouldn't be worth the cost both in terms of money and in terms of rules enforcement. So therefore they ensure that they can enforce some general rules that create general expectations that makes that labor pool the most exploitable that it can be. The same reason that this school can't discriminate with its clubs it's the same reason that the L. Ron Hubbard College of Administration International can't get accredited. It's all about producing people who hold degrees that can compete in the general labor pool, not separate themselves off in some weirdo enclave so that they can try and shut out other competitors. The government is an interested party, providing loans and grants in order to maintain its competitive advantages in the labor pool to the best of its ability. When you go out of those boundaries, the
18 days ago - Sunday 9/18/22 - 9:25:06 PM EST (GMT-5)
government loses interest and it's no longer willing to provide support.
17 days ago - Sunday 9/18/22 - 11:48:55 PM EST (GMT-5)
That doesn't seem to follow the fact that 'for profit' colleges (which often have questionable accreditations) have students that receive pell grants and government backed student loans.
17 days ago - Sunday 9/18/22 - 11:52:35 PM EST (GMT-5)
Accreditation is typically done by non-government organizations, no?

The one that I cared about when I was in college is ABET which is a non-profit, non governmental organization which evaluates college programs in engineering.
17 days ago - Monday 9/19/22 - 6:56:05 AM EST (GMT-5)
On Sunday 9/18/22 - 11:48:55 PM CowDung wrote:
That doesn't seem to follow the fact that 'for profit' colleges (which often have questionable accreditations) have students that receive pell grants and government backed student loans.


Questionable accreditations are still accreditations as long as the government recognizes the accrediting organization. And all accrediting organizations in the US are NGOs, however the accrediting organizations that the department of education is going to acknowledge are the ones that comply with government law and regulation. In most other countries accreditations are managed by the government directly, this is just the way we do things and largely because we have high government distrust, so we use intermediary organizations. It's not the only instance of the government allowing independent organizations to establish a body
17 days ago - Monday 9/19/22 - 7:18:51 AM EST (GMT-5)
Of trusted information for a particular source and expertise. For example the ADL and Southern Poverty Law Center are both used to inform both the public and the government on what qualifies as a hate group. This ensures that the government isn't defining things for themselves but still has trusted information sources and also ensues the public that the government isn't just manufacturing information to support it's agenda and instead has professional organizations that support the government's role in their agenda.

And yeah some accrediting organizations are sketchy but the government still interacts with them until they have enough problems to determine they can't maintain good faith relations. And all of these things require enforcement from both ends to maintain. The government has to enforce it's rules and the accrediting agencies have to maintain their standards.
17 days ago - Monday 9/19/22 - 7:21:03 AM EST (GMT-5)
And while neither of those things is perfect and at times they can be bad, neither of those justify going off board and not complying with the law in the law in the eyes of the government.
17 days ago - Monday 9/19/22 - 8:54:13 AM EST (GMT-5)
Also, important to this conversation, accreditations are entirely consensual. This school has gone through the process attested that they're going to follow the rules and laws required, and then didn't hold up to that.

There are lots of schools they don't want accreditation specifically because they don't want to be held to those standards and requirements, and they get treated like what they're registered as (for profit, nonprofit, not for profit) instead of specifically a school, which is what they want. And this isn't necessarily a bad thing. This community is doing it's own thing they want their independence and usually the communities they serve are small enough that their unaccredited status still serves their purpose.

But when they're trying to get accreditations and either can't or are constantly trying to break rules and shxt weasel, that's blocking a problem and we should
17 days ago - Monday 9/19/22 - 9:21:30 AM EST (GMT-5)
all be all for it because what they're doing is trying to gain money, power and/or social or political influence, and doing that over advancing their interests in serving the community at large. Like, why would I cut an organization making moves like that any slack? They're supposed to be serving the community at large, they sought accreditations to let us know that's what they represent, then come to find out they had another agenda? At any time they could have let us know they were breaking ties and could have given up their accreditation, instead what they're telling me is that they want to break rules, but keep ties and the money that comes with it. What they're effectively saying is "we don't serve you, you serve us," and that's just not something a school should be doing.
17 days ago - Monday 9/19/22 - 5:11:14 PM EST (GMT-5)
Accreditations have nothing to do with the government, and really shouldn't, at least at the college/professional level. The accreditation organization does the auditing of the schools to verify that they are adhering to the standards, not the government.

17 days ago - Monday 9/19/22 - 5:12:01 PM EST (GMT-5)
...and have nothing to do with the student loans and pell grants.
17 days ago - Monday 9/19/22 - 7:08:24 PM EST (GMT-5)
Take it up with the Department of Education, they're the ones that recognize accrediting organizations
17 days ago - Monday 9/19/22 - 9:55:04 PM EST (GMT-5)
Yes, they can recognize accrediting organizations, but the organizations come from educational institutions, not the government, and their legitimacy comes from educational institutions and industry, not the government.

The government cannot withdraw/invalidate/cancel accreditation (or grant/award accreditation) from an educational institution. Only the accreditation organization can do that, based on the school not meeting the standard that have been set by that organization for a particular educational program.
17 days ago - Monday 9/19/22 - 10:42:57 PM EST (GMT-5)
No, but the government uses accrediting organizations to determine what qualifies as a school and what does not, because there's multiple ways a school can exist on paper. There are state schools, and there are private schools, and private schools can operate as nonprofits, not for profit and for profit institutions. But you can't call any of those things a school based on that. You also can't go based on copyright, trademark, etc. because we use those for works of fiction all the time. Therefore, the only things the government is going to accept as schools are the things that accrediting organizations say are schools. Therefore, if you don't want to be tested like a school by the government, just don't get accredited! It's not hard to follow and infact many schools follow exactly that train of logic and it works great for them!
13 days ago - Friday 9/23/22 - 10:52:58 AM EST (GMT-5)
Just don't get accredited? Accreditation has been around a lot longer than the Department of Education. Schools don't do it for the government, they get accreditations because it helps their students get jobs when they graduate.

12 days ago - Saturday 9/24/22 - 2:04:10 PM EST (GMT-5)
On Friday 9/23/22 - 10:52:58 AM CowDung wrote:
Just don't get accredited? Accreditation has been around a lot longer than the Department of Education. Schools don't do it for the government, they get accreditations because it helps their students get jobs when they graduate.


Sure, and compliance with accreditation always conforms with the law. Every time. Because accreditors know that part of that general respectability and esteeme that comes from accreditation comes from complying with the government and with social norms as a whole. That means as social norms and laws change, accreditors are going to change to. To do otherwise would make everyone under the accrediting umbrella a target and that would not harm future employment options for students.
12 days ago - Saturday 9/24/22 - 3:02:54 PM EST (GMT-5)
Assuming government reach as social is false.
12 days ago - Saturday 9/24/22 - 3:03:58 PM EST (GMT-5)
It’s just an old mechanism that usually functions acceptably. Norms are psychological not sociological.
12 days ago - Saturday 9/24/22 - 10:11:01 PM EST (GMT-5)
On Saturday 9/24/22 - 3:03:58 PM amaqdrinker wrote:
It’s just an old mechanism that usually functions acceptably. Norms are psychological not sociological.

On Saturday 9/24/22 - 3:02:54 PM amaqdrinker wrote:
Assuming government reach as social is false.


Everything you're saying here is the intellectual equivalent of drating a dog. Sociology is where norms and mores get studied. Laws are probably best understood as the means by which norms and mores are promoted to the exclusion of other competing values. When there's discord over norms ands mores, the resulting effect is called anomie. This is literally sociology 101 shxt. The shxt you think sucks, the world you wish you lived in is long dead, and you're just trying to chase dust and ghosts.
12 days ago - Saturday 9/24/22 - 10:15:38 PM EST (GMT-5)
And for the record, current polling shows support for gay marriage at an all time high of 71% as of this June. It's not even controversial at this point, it's decided, and anyone opposing is on the wrong side of history.
11 days ago - Sunday 9/25/22 - 4:49:12 AM EST (GMT-5)
No really theory on normativity is based on psychology not sociology.

It doesn’t matter if you think there’s some kind of hive mind pulpit that guides people. There isn’t.

Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Next (showing 26-50 of 156)



You need to be logged in to post a reply

New to YT? Create a Free Account ~ Have an Account? Log In

Back to Thread List
Top

 
Edit